The great Dell Linux scam
In theory, a Dell machine with Linux is $50 cheaper… but the free RAM/HDD upgrade (a $275 value) is only for Windows customers. But wait, there’s more!
This is only the latest development in a story that’s been chock full with disappointment:
An anonymous reader writes “One week ago this community discussed the apparent price advantage of Ubuntu Dell over Vista. The article linked to a Dell IdeaStorm page with the status: ‘Implemented.’ Today the status has changed on that page to ‘Reneged: Ubuntu Dell is $225 More Than Windows Dell.’ The full price of a Ubuntu Inspiron 1420N is indeed $50 cheaper than the identical hardware configuration with Vista — except that a $275 free upgrade to 2GB memory and a 160-GB hard drive is available for Windows only.”
OK, let’s see the entire story in perspective (almost six months of events in six bullet points, so excuse me if the list’s a bit superficial):
- Dell gets pummeled in its own very IdeaStorm: “we want Linux”, the customers say.
- Dell balks at proposal. Users angry. Digg uproar.
Dell recants. Users happy. - Dell “starts shipping” the machines, except there are no machines to buy. Users furious. Digg uproar.
Dell corrects the stocking issue. Users happy. - Select Dell warranty offerings not available for Ubuntu-based machines. Users angry. Digg uproar.
Dell warranty offerings equalized. Users not so happy this time, but, meh. - Linux Dell machines more expensive than Windows machines. Users angry.
Dell corrects pricing mistakes, now Linux machines are $50 less. Users happy again. - A free hard disk / RAM upgrade (with a market value of $275) is now not available with Linux machines. Effectively, the Linux machines are more expensive than the Windows machines again.
Dell: do you really think we’re idiots? We can clearly see that a hard disk, a RAM memory module, and a hardware warranty plan have nothing to do with Windows — it’s obvious you’re doing this to steer people away from buying Linux machines.
Yes, we know Microsoft is inches away from dumping you as a partner. We’d rather you admit it to us than have you continually find new ways to cheat on us customers.
Come on, you morons, haven’t you figured out already that every single move you make is under the scrutiny of millions of Linux users with above-average intelligence?
This is the perfect example of how a company completely loses customer loyalty.
Update: since this topic has generated quite the stir lately (even though it’s old) you should know that whenever I’ve had people (mostly close ones) ask me to recommend a laptop, I’ve always ended up recommending Dell ones; they do make good hardware. Not only that, but (to all the sufferers out there), I actually have a Dell PowerEdge 1521 as my workstation, so shut up already with the insults already.
The catch? Right after the purchase, I personally install Kubuntu Linux (unlike Windows, Ubuntu’s the gift that keeps on booting) on them, and hand an original Kubuntu LiveCD to the laptop’s owner; I’m betting many people do the same, so if Dell sees low Linux sales figures, now you know why.
April 6th, 2008 at 9:21
Who the #^@& would buy a Dell anyway?
If you want to use Linux just buy the damn computer you want and figure out how to install Linux on it.
Geez kids, no wonder everything is so F’d up…
Oh, and VOTE for RON PAUL (Don’t let the other three send my kids to war.)
April 6th, 2008 at 10:37
Switched to Ubuntu about two years back and will never switch back. When the time comes to replace the old box, if Del won’t do it fairly and honestly, I’m sure thousands of suppliers will be more than willing to compete for my money by offering exactly what I want.The larger a corporation gets,the further from its roots it gets,it appears. Come on Dell, get back to your capitalistic cut throat, pro-consumer roots and let go of the Microsoft Dinosaur before it takes you down with it. Also, be aware, China wants to kick your ass, and they don’t need Microsoft to do it.
April 6th, 2008 at 12:05
That’s nice, they’re trying to fool people that actually know about computers, Dell is lame anyway, building your own computer is cheaper and brings satisfaction.
April 6th, 2008 at 14:49
Let me tell you something about business, if you want to put a price (any price) on any of the articles you are selling you are perfectly entitled to do so. If you want to lose money on upgrades, you are perfectly entitled to do so too (as long as you aren’t doing it to break someone). If Dell wants to give away computers with Windows but just won’t do so with Linux for whatever reason, they have the right to do so and a passive agressive rant from a Linux acolyte with “above-average intelligence” won’t make them change.
As far as the “millions of Linux users” who buy computers from Dell, if it is cheaper to buy a Windows machine, why not buy a Windows machine and then install Linux?
April 6th, 2008 at 17:51
“…millions of Linux users with above-average intelligence?…” This is why I hate linux fanboys. Linux is crap. Man pages suck. Command-line is for real losers… If you’re looking for an alternative to paying $99 for Windows, buy an $1800 MAC.
April 6th, 2008 at 17:59
Just buy the Windows computer and install Ubuntu yourself or get a friend to help you do it. That way, for the same price you will have a copy of windows if you ever decide that you want it.
April 6th, 2008 at 17:59
Dell and other major box sellers get money from all that crapware that comes preinstalled. Obviously, on a Linux based machine, that shit cannot be installed. Therefore the unit prices are higher. Yes, the cost of doze could be removed, but Dell and Co only pay a tiny fraction of the retail price.
April 6th, 2008 at 18:00
Dell and other major box sellers get money from all that crapware that comes preinstalled. Obviously, on a Linux based machine, that shit cannot be installed. Therefore the unit prices are higher. Yes, the cost of doze could be removed, but Dell and Co only pay a tiny fraction of the retail price.
April 6th, 2008 at 18:01
“we know Microsoft is inches away from dumping you as a partner” HAHAHAHAHA!
April 6th, 2008 at 18:05
Hi,
Seems like you have told the stories so far.
But I have a serious doubt, why do people want Linux machines already installed?
If I am geek enough to use Linux, I will install it by my own on a Dell machine with Windows already on it.
What is the big deal doing that?
April 6th, 2008 at 18:07
Breaking news - If the Windows Dell is cheaper, buy it and install whatever distro you want and quit bitching
April 6th, 2008 at 18:14
It seems to me that the Linux Dell may be showing results its own success. Dell did not make the Ubuntu-based machines more expensive, they are running a sale on the Windows machines. Why? Because they need to unload more. Simple supply and demand.
April 6th, 2008 at 18:20
Right on! Linux will run great on just about anything. So if Dell were smart, they better learn to deal with us fairly. Anyway the hand writing is on the wall for Microsoft. They will probably end up only making applications and not OS’s, going in the direction they’re going ie… the abomination that is “Vista”. My personal message to Dell “Be prepared to be assimilated by the Mighty Penguin”.
April 6th, 2008 at 18:21
[...] A look at how Dell is really scamming Linux users into paying more for hardware and how Dell really does not want to offer Linux because they will be dumped by the almighty Microsoft.http://rudd-o.com/archives/2007/07/11/dell-paying-lip-service-only-to-linux/” rel=”dc:so… [...]
April 6th, 2008 at 18:22
“We can clearly see that a hard disk, a RAM memory module, and a hardware warranty plan have nothing to do with Windows”
Yes it does, Microsoft pays them to do it..
April 6th, 2008 at 18:25
I know it may seem counter-intuitive, but MS would be better off if Linux gained market share - the antitrust groups would stfu - and MS could be free to do more (look at Apple… they recieve no guff for bundling Safari & iLife).
And Intel didn’t drop Dell for going AMD, so why would MS?
April 6th, 2008 at 18:27
Nice article. My current Dell is kind of not up to speed anymore. I think I will be hesitant on my next computer purchase.
April 6th, 2008 at 18:29
Just do like I did: order a Dell computer, contact sales, and ask if they can replace Vista with Free DOS. I did get some money back. Note that it was not easy, it took about a week (several chats and emails). See http://johnbokma.com/mexit/2008/02/11/dell-vostro-200-windows-tax-free-mexico.html for the longer version.
April 6th, 2008 at 18:36
this is incase you couldn’t be bothered reading that
there is no conspiracy against linux check your facts before you mouth off grow up
thank you and goodnight
April 6th, 2008 at 18:49
Yep, millions of comments here!
April 6th, 2008 at 18:51
Sheesh another one of these “Why are Linux machines more expensive than Windows machines when Linux costs nothing?”
Linux may cost nothing, but it also has zero third party. Why does that make a difference? Well let’s look at your average Dell preinstalled Windows system. What’s the first thing you notice when you boot it up? Why usually there’s at least 3-5 icons on the desktop alone for trialware or some ISP wanting you to sign up for their service. But that’s not all, there are tons of bookmarks in your browser, a few trial programs installed, sometimes AntiVirus software included, etc.
Microsoft can’t pay PC manufacturers to install their software, but all these software makers can. Now it was once said that Microsoft charge manufacturers around $10 for a copy of Windows. Let’s assume that’s true for a moment (we don’t know, so no use arguing it). How much do you think all those companies pay dell for all that software that’s included. Probably enough to offset the cost of Windows and then some, no? Maybe even enough to reduce the cost of the PC another $50. This can certainly help them to stay competitive in the market place.
Let’s not forget all those “upsales” they are pushing on you when you purchase online. Dell offers quite a bit of upsales for different manufacturers.
So before you start complaining that your Linux cost more than Windows, just be grateful your Linux isn’t riddled with adware and trialware which is a value greater than the time spent removing it from Windows.
April 6th, 2008 at 19:00
I understand where you’re coming from, and personally, Dell is on my list of companies which I’d never purchase anything from.
I don’t think Microsoft is Dell’s only concern; Linux OS’s are a constantly changing and up until recently, technically orientated, piece of software. I don’t think Dell has the time or the man power to expand their technical support to cover their Linux offerings.
But, who would really want a Dell for Linux anyway? Realistically, if your buying a PC with Linux as your base OS, then you’d probably be best of contacting a small computer store and asking them to help you come up with a PC on your budget then letting Dell screw around.
April 6th, 2008 at 19:02
What’s the problem? Just buy the Windoze box and stick Ubuntu on it???
April 6th, 2008 at 19:11
It’s not that Dell thinks Linux customers are idiots, it’s that Dell themselves are idiots. Never attribute to malice what can be explained by stupidity. Linux and Windows configs at Dell are managed more than likely by separate teams of people and the Linux ones simply aren’t as important.
April 6th, 2008 at 19:22
Not sure why a linux geek would buy a Dell in the first place. Usually Linux users with above-average intelligence build their own.
“Yes, we know Microsoft is inches away from dumping you as a partner.”
Never going to happen.
April 6th, 2008 at 19:22
You’re surprised?
Also: how many people buy Linux desktops? How many percent? Do you have any idea how much it costs for the configuration of the machines, and training people to give support for this stuff? Dell charges for services more than anything else. But no, rather than appreciate that Dell is one of the few manufacturers that offers you this service, you rant on about how they are charging more for retraining their personnel, and only doing what they are licensed to do. So do I think you’re an idiot? With a post like this you certainly give the impression.
There is almost no customer loyalty lost here, as Linux is used by the fewest of users. Dell is not cheating its customers, but giving a minority the opportunity to get what they want. I guess if everyone complained as much as you did, they wouldn’t offer that possibility.
April 6th, 2008 at 19:23
Thanks for this, I’ve only bought Dell laptops in the past years and this is starting to drive me away from them..
April 6th, 2008 at 19:35
Writing from the perspective of a Linux fan (Xandros and Ubuntu) who also owns a company: I don’t see anything wrong with offering discounts to encourage certain configurations that will sell in huge numbers. I agree that warrenty terms should be equalized, and if all Windows machines are effectively cheaper than equivalent configured Linux machines, then they are making a strategic decision that I don’t agree with. But offering bargains and discounts are how companies this large determine purchasing habits and advertising effectiveness. Hopefully they will dabble in some Linux discount offers as well. And then hopefully people will come forward and actually buy more as a result. Otherwise, you can kiss any hope of equivalence good-bye.
April 6th, 2008 at 19:36
I wonder if this is just Dell, working out the kinks in their system. Their ‘Linux Department’ may be a new entity within Dell and is just working to integrate themselves into the company.
April 6th, 2008 at 19:49
there’s a reason dell doesn’t care about linux; it fucking sucks
April 6th, 2008 at 19:49
I just bought a macbook. Fuck yea, apple is awesome.
April 6th, 2008 at 19:58
Dell Linux computers still more expensive?…
It seems that although Dell takes $50 off the price of a computer loaded with Ubuntu, they dont provide the free hard drive and RAM upgrade that Windows users are allowed. The upgrade, worth $275, has to be paid for, effectively making the Ubuntu syste…
April 6th, 2008 at 19:59
Seems like a pretty nice thing for Dell to do to these customers… I wonder if I get a free kick in the nuts too?
April 6th, 2008 at 20:03
I don’t think you’ve fully thought this through. Did you ever consider that just maybe Microsoft offers kickbacks for selling their OS and that they aid Dell in offering the “instant off” deals?
Because they do. I work for Dell as a Technical Sales Representative, answering tech questions that our normal sales staff isn’t able to. When you see massive sales and discounts, it’s not all coming out of Dell’s wallet - microsoft partners with us for a lot of that.
If you want discounts for Ubuntu, then get Ubuntu to pony up. Or, here’s a thought - buy the damned vista version and install Ubuntu yourself. If you know how to use linux, you know how to install linux.
Quit your bitching.
April 6th, 2008 at 20:14
Its about business, not Linux! Basically dell gets a certain amount of money per machine that they ship with certain software already installed. They don’t get this money if Linux is installed because Linux doesn’t run these programs. Your argument is faulty.
April 6th, 2008 at 20:18
Why would anyone of above average intelligence consider buying a Dell, regardless or operating system?
April 6th, 2008 at 20:30
[...] how Dell really does not want to offer Linux because they will be dumped by the almighty Microsoft.read more | digg [...]
April 6th, 2008 at 20:33
…the first to comment. Why would anyone buy from Dell for ANY hardware-related purchase anyways? Dell has a 2/10 on resellerratings, they are beyond horrible. Just get Windows and download Ubuntu or other and install for free. That way it’s $275 cheaper.
April 6th, 2008 at 20:38
“Linux users with above-average intelligence?”
I agree, but where did you get that from?
Nice article tho, good find and important to let everyone know.
April 6th, 2008 at 20:41
I have noticed this very same thing by numerous PC vendors. Dell isn’t the only one! PC’s running Linux should cost no more than the equivalent PC running Windows less the cost of the Windows software. Now some may argue that the vendors still have to put the Linux software on the PC and that is where the added costs come into play with Linux. Well, you have to install Windows on the computers too and that is already factored into the price isn’t it? So what do vendors pay for an OEM version of Windows Vista compaired to the cost of a version of Ubuntu (for example).
I want to start seeing vendors selling PC’s with NO operation system installed and give the consumer the option of what OS they want on it and increase the price from there. Would’t it be great if instead of seeing laptops with Vista installed selling for $500, we started seeing laptops with NO operating systems installed selling for $400 or less and give the consumer the option that they desirve? I want to start seeing stickers that say “Certified for Linux ” along with those “Certified for Vista” ones.
April 6th, 2008 at 20:42
This may have been a better way to write this story:
ATTENTION LINUX USERS: BUY DELL WITH WINDOWS PRE-INSTALLED Dell is offering a hard drive upgrade, memory upgrade and extended hardware warranty only to customers purchasing hardware with Windows pre-installed. Place your order and head to http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/download.
April 6th, 2008 at 20:52
youre an idiot.
they will make millions off the vista machines, and less than a quarter of the same off the linux ones.
yes they are going to do things to make m$ happy
April 6th, 2008 at 21:25
Digg uproar?
Really?
Get over yourself man. There have been a few oversights. Way to bite the hand that feeds you; they’ve been doing their best to provide Linux options and you spit in their eye.
You’re everything that’s wrong with the internet, you know that?
April 6th, 2008 at 21:26
[...] The great Dell Linux scamIn theory, a Dell machine with Linux is $50 cheaper… but the free RAM/HDD upgrade (a $275 value) is only for Windows customers. But wait, there’s more!rudd-o.com [...]
April 6th, 2008 at 21:31
“This is the perfect example of how a company completely loses customer loyalty.” I think you’ve got that backwards, most Linux users including myself avoid Dell like the plague because of the garbage that they pull, if anything Dell is going to have to convince us that it is worth buying anything from them as opposed to say system76 or pretty much any other OEM that has sold Linux pre-installed PCs. What do you think the chances of that are?
April 6th, 2008 at 21:40
“”Come on, you morons”" not a good way to get your point across
April 6th, 2008 at 21:42
I can’t top this, well said. Encore!
April 6th, 2008 at 21:45
You guys begged for ages for linux desktops and got mad when they provided it to you. Stop bitching already.
April 6th, 2008 at 21:50
It must suck to try to provide the options that your customers are asking for but then get huge pressure from a company whom your relationship with has allowed your success. I’ve bought Dell for a long time. I’d like to see Dell’s with Linux, but I’d rather see Dell be around in general. If we’re really talking about the “Linux Community” then we know that any of them can install Linux on their own. What we’re really talking about is the Linux option to non-Linux computer users. I like that idea, I like the idea of users having open-source options. As for whether Dell is actually trying get users to buy Microsoft instead of Linux machines, I am not sure. Anyone who watches any of the ‘deal sites’ knows that Dell has drastically different pricing within its divisions on the the exact same hardware. Alot of times there is actually drastically different pricing on the exact same item within the same division. You have to ferret the deals out. Regardless of the reason that this current pricing differs I don’t think it’s fair to condemn Dell for this. However, at the same time if you don’t make a big stink about things, then things don’t change right?
April 6th, 2008 at 21:51
Inches away from MS dumping Dell?! What are you smoking. Dell is single handely keeping Microsoft aflot. No one ships more Windows machines than Dell does on a yearly basis. I highly doubt that MS would drop it’s biggest moneymaker.
FAIL
April 6th, 2008 at 22:06
Ok, these articles need to stop. Every time Dell makes a special offer on a Windows machine, they have to manually re-apply it to the Linux machines. Which they often forget to do. This has happened at least 3 times. Just let Dell know of the pricing glitch and they should fix it.
April 6th, 2008 at 22:25
Fact: Windows always was a POS, is a POS now and always will be a POS Fact: Bill Gates is a liar and a bully who desperately needs to have the shit kicked out of him.
All the computer manufacturers should get together and tell the Gates crime to eat manure and die and install Linux on all their machines.
April 6th, 2008 at 22:41
My Company, http://www.aderra.net, uses Linux machines. I called Dell Small Business Services to order 30 Linux laptops. We compared the cost of buying these machines with Linux installed, No O/S or windows XP and found that we would save $300+ per machine if we ordered the XP loaded computer and paid our techs to remove it and replace it with Linux. The Dell Linux offer is a half hearted appeal to true users at best and a truly cynical PR move at worst but in the end is not a practical solution for anyone who is actually using Linux.
April 6th, 2008 at 22:50
The RAM and Disk upgrades from the manufactures are a rip off anyway except for the Apple Macbook Pro, which will viod your warranty to do these upgrades. The base system comes with 1g included in the price (2×512), you pay $125 extra for 2g (2x 1g), what happened to the 2 512’s that were included, you just paid about $35 more for 2x 1g than retail and you are out the orginal 2x 512 that the system came with and went into someone base system build, that is the scam that they all run, not just Dell, buyer beware! Do what I did when I got my 1420N, get the base system, add the extra’s that make sense, like the video card, the 1440×900 display,bluetooth, all other you can do better, case in point; at the time of purchase Dell wanted $200 to go from the 120G HDD to a 160G, both of witch were SATA I 5400 drives, I purchased a Toshiba SATA II 300G 250G for $111.10 shipped, when the box arrived, I unpacked it, pulled the factory HDD, put the Toshiba drive in, placed the Ubuntu DVD in the drive and off we went. My current Dell 1420 has lots of extras, I have spent about $200 (or the price of the HDD upgrade) to get 2G of ram, 250G HDD SATA II 300, and 802.11. After all that I still have 2×512 ram, a new external SATA 120G complete with Dell Ubuntu.iso on it, and a spare Intel 3945abg mini-pcie card that I can give away or sell, shop smart not hard.
April 6th, 2008 at 23:55
You sir, do NOTHING for the open source community at large. All I realize when I look at YOUR list is that Dell tries to do the right thing in every situation.
I would love your insight as to how you think Microsoft would drop Dell as a partner, are you mad???? You sure sound angry, so I hope that writing your very dumb blog helped you blow off a little steam.
It’s people like you that fragment this community!
April 7th, 2008 at 0:47
Heh figured it was too good to be true…..this is why I would rather build my own computer. Linux ftw.
April 7th, 2008 at 1:01
Those not familiar with the theory behind “business” desktop computer lines (Optiplex, Vectra, etc), the idea is to keep hardware as consistent as possible. This can go really bad when Dell selects, say, an IBM Deathstar hard drive (GX100 & 110). Or ships a SFF unit with heat problems (GX520 SFF). Or, say, an entire line of laptops with defective keyboards (Latitude D600). Or how about another round of defective hard drives, this time Maxtor SATA drives (GX280).
Needless to say I don’t make vendor decisions for my company, but I have spent the last ~10 years replacing model wide hardware defects on Dell computers.
The DeathStar incident was the worst. Dell refused to replace them after warranty, referring customers back to IBM. IBM sold it’s desktop hard drive business to Hitachi, who refused to honor the warranty (at least that’s what I was told by numerous Hitachi support reps). So we were stuck footing the bill for hard drive replacements on over 100 desktops that were still within the 3 year ATA warranty period. Dell denied any problem with the drives, even after a class action lawsuit was brought against IBM. One really sad conversation with a tech support rep went kind of like this:
Me: “So you’re saying there is not a defect with these DeskStar hard drives?”
Dell: “That’s right. We’ve had no problems with them.”
Me: “Except for the 100+ we’ve had to replace, right?”
Dell: “I’d have to look up your records.”
Me: “Why don’t I just send you a link to class action lawsuit against IBM. That should save you some time.”
Dell: “That’s very interesting. First I’ve heard of it.”
My personal opinion is that Linux is better off not shipping on Dell computers. This is a company that has sold overpriced crap hardware to customers for years.
April 7th, 2008 at 1:05
I lucked out and missed the whole thing on account of I NEVER thought Dell made good products to begin with.
Well, not entirely true. They have some good ones, but they lack any kind of support or value to prevent me from buying one from someone else or making my own PC.
April 7th, 2008 at 1:06
[...] how Dell really does not want to offer Linux because they will be dumped by the almighty Microsoft.read more | digg story addthis_url = [...]
April 7th, 2008 at 1:22
The Great Dell Linux scam…
rudd-o.com — A look at how Dell is really scamming Linux users into paying more for hardware and how Dell really does not want to offer Linux because they will be dumped by the almighty Microsoft…
April 7th, 2008 at 1:38
I’m not sure I agree. Dell just isn’t into Linux like we users are. They have idiots dealing with us. If a company could be sustained that had as much interest in Linux as we do why hasn’t anybody done it properly as in support it as well as we want? system76.com and a few others are far from ideal. They don’t offer the optimal solutions. They only offer a handful of similar type OEM laptops with few real options. I’d be the first to start a company and run it by myself if the community would really put the money into it and not abandon it on the first site of slightly higher prices. I could provide great solutions, the right solutions, and user friendly solutions if only I had the publicity and support of the community. We are far from one community. The day every major Linux site supports one Linux store is the day I’d start one. Until then it’ll be a hodgepodge of inefficient separate stores without any real support beyond developers developing software. Developers don’t always manage things in totality terms. The managers don’t understand Linux, and finding a combination is seeming difficult. Ubuntu’s founder seems to be doing the best job (of course he also has the $$$ behind him). I think Linspire’s executives certainly failed to do this even though they fuck it up allot and don’t know what they want.
April 7th, 2008 at 1:38
Dell is going completely out of its way to legitimize Ubuntu in the eyes of the general public and all you can do is trash this company. Honestly, with reactions like these its no surprise that no major vendors support linux for the home comsumer market. You are just complaining that the Windows PC was ON SALE while the Ubuntu one wasnt. Its not like the ram upgrade is permanent. That was just the special for that week.
Actually, In theory Ubuntu machines should be equal to or more expensive that the windows ones because the fixed costs of maintaining separate tech support and dedicated product lines is spread among MUCH FEWER customers than the windows PCs.
BTW: I installed ubuntu on my Dell Laptop (and then had to completely reinstalled it because something went wrong) so I could dual boot into windows. Then one day, I decided to install the phun application. In the phun application I decided to try to select full screen… THAT WAS A MISTAKE. The operation somehow messed up the boot sequence, and now every single time I hibernate or shut down my laptop and try to turn in back on, it does not recognize my hard drive. Thus I have to manually turn the computer or and off until it randomly recognizes my hard drive on like the 8th try. So my advice is this: if youre thinking about trying out Ubuntu realize that it has the potential to completely mess up your computer because of hardware/software incompatibilities.
Ironically, support from major vendors would be a great incentive for component manufacturers to work out the hardware compatibilities. However, the linux fanboys love to bitch about the great injustices they suffer when they are disenfanchised because of their god given birth right to choose an operating system. Of course, in reality such actions only leads to major vendors to alienate them in fear of eliciting headlines like “Dell Linux Scam” for their effort to please an ungreatful community.
April 7th, 2008 at 1:51
[...] the whole post. Posted in Technology | Leave a [...]
April 7th, 2008 at 2:13
Why is it that “they” “them” evil higher up theres are always taking away or fluffing up windows ! fact linux is better fact windows is used more ! but linux is hard ! no no it is not recovering the stuff you were working on all month that was lost due to a bsod now that is hard, linux is the way!!!!
April 7th, 2008 at 2:19
Dell is not a serious organization at all. The way they distribute tenders for the production resulting in special quality had some influence on me. My wife had two failed hard drives and cracked screen leg in one year.
April 7th, 2008 at 2:35
The question is, why do you care?
Dells are overpriced piles of crap.
Why would someone use linux but still buy shoddy overpriced hardware.
April 7th, 2008 at 2:51
Why is anybody surprised by this? I have done a lot of PC repair work, and based on what I see inside Dell machines, and the bloatware they load I could not recommend a Dell computer anymore than I could recommend shopping at Best Buy. Pay a little more from a reputable vendor and you will be much happier.
April 7th, 2008 at 3:03
[...] http://rudd-o.com/archives/2007/07/11/dell-paying-lip-service-only-to-linux/ [...]
April 7th, 2008 at 3:41
I’m betting that the reason why Ubuntu Dell’s are not at least $100 cheaper STARTING PRICE than Dells (for the same hardware) (which they should be because they’re not paying a dime for Ubuntu) is because Microsoft is still probably engaging in its unethical monopolistic practice of requiring OEM’s like Dell to buy a licensed copy of Windows for each computer they make - even if Windows isn’t on the PC. We may recall that this was the subject of much litigation against Bill Gates’s company recently - litigation which, if I recall right, Microsoft was on the losing end of. But apparently they haven’t learned their lesson. So ultimately, an Ubuntu customer is still paying for the Windows license that Dell bought from Microsoft, even though they are not getting Windows. Keep in mind that this is just speculation, but I’d not be surprised to learn of its truth.
So there are two questions I have:
1) Can this please reveal Microsoft’s continued unethical practices and bring consequences on them?
2) If I have to pay for Windows anyway, but still want Ubuntu pre-installed, why doesn’t Dell offer a pre-configured dual-boot system?
April 7th, 2008 at 4:03
sorry for my unnecessary comment. I think putting ubuntu on dell was a cheap shot made by dell for those linux user who want to have this open source software on their machine. its not dell fault to fail on these. i am also a consumer so i think its just fair. since they are partners, i think they receive their copy of windows on much cheaper, that makes ubuntu and vista not a basis. but on free specs.? hmmn.. I think most of windows laptop have same freebies. so i thinks its not a different step there.
April 7th, 2008 at 4:25
M: Take this out for Linux PCs D: Yes boss
M: Make sure people that you offer Linux with your PCs. Also make sure that Linux never wins against our software. Not even come anywhere near competition. D: Yes boss. But you see, there is something called blogosphere and social media. Not to forget our idea storm website.
M: We don’t care. If you fail to do what we say, you won’t get discounts on your software anymore. D: ____________________
What Dell should say is, d: go ahead. We do what our customers want.
M$ cannot afford to dump Dell. Even if they do, Dell will suffer more losses than M$. They can now actually threaten M$ by going with Linux. The community will definitely support Dell. Although the decision may look scary in the business world.
Regards, Sudheer
April 7th, 2008 at 4:34
[...] het hele verhaal op de blog The great Dell Linux scam… Zo te zien begint Dell de druk van Microsoft te [...]
April 7th, 2008 at 4:34
youf ucking nazi pricksz ill jfucking kilz u for charging moneys im richer then D3ellz anyway
haha l09l;
fuul.!
April 7th, 2008 at 5:32
You sound rather whiney for a business decision on their part. Linux simply isn’t that wonderful a deal for them. They must offer support, adding another expense to the project, warranty work (no extra cost really), and marketing for the linux side of their business (another cost). Its just not as cheap as you seem to want it to be.
April 7th, 2008 at 6:14
I haven’t been following the Dell/Linux fiasco closely, but I remember I was very happy when they first announced it, didn’t imagine it was this controversial.
Personally, I don’t think I would ever buy one, or any other brand for that matter. I would build one from scratch.
April 7th, 2008 at 6:26
Looks like Dell also dropped the lower priced notebook option [Inspiron 1410?] recently. Now there’s only a $900 option. They just lost my order…
April 7th, 2008 at 7:29
While I agree with everything stated in the article, you (and I presume Dell) are overlooking two very simple facts: namely that 95% of PC users either a) don’t want Linux, or b) have never heard of it. The survey that Dell conducted to gauge user interest in Linux was in itself flawed, because it was, for the most part, something that only tech-savvy users would take part in . . . which excludes 90% of Dell’s customers. While it was an interesting experiment, it was doomed to fail. People who use Linux are too smart to buy a Dell. Period.
April 7th, 2008 at 8:43
I have the same reaction as I do when I hear about Bestbuy/HomeDepot/WalMart stories. If you don’t like what they do, then stop buying from them. In this marketplace, only one way to make your voices heard. Hit them where it hurts, and you’ll get their attention.
April 7th, 2008 at 9:31
Lol, you had me until “above average intelligence”
April 7th, 2008 at 10:23
Dell is under a lot of pressure from MS and is doing a perfectly fine job of delivering the Linux boxes. Sites like this that bitch and complain about everything only serve to hurt Linux.
April 7th, 2008 at 10:56
Honestly, that post was good until the juvenile name calling at the end. The reason, most likely, for the lack of free RAM/HDd upgrade is that they are making enough overhead on the Windows OS to cover their expense of a “free” upgrade. As opposed to the situation with Linux, where the OS is free.
Lastly, if every Linux user is capable of “above-average intelligence,” build a computer. It’s not that hard. And more importantly, you get exactly what you want, for cheaper than it costs to buy from Dell, and it doesn’t say Dell.
April 7th, 2008 at 11:11
Exactly right!
Dell, I was going to ask how many monkeys run your company but then I realised that even monkeys would see that linux is allowing you to tap into an entirely different market and save money at the same time! It’s like this, you put bias over Windows machines as you are doing now and someone will find a way to take you to court for breaching trading law. I’ll make it easy to understand for you:
Windows
April 7th, 2008 at 11:18
Exactly right!
Dell, I was going to ask how many monkeys run your company but then I realised that even monkeys would see that linux is allowing you to tap into an entirely different market and save money at the same time! It’s like this, you put bias over Windows machines as you are doing now and someone will find a way to take you to court for breaching trading law. I’ll make it easy to understand for you:
Linux is an operating system
Linux uses the same hardware setup as Windows
Linux machines cost LESS to produce as Windows machines
Linux machines are more secure than Windows machines = Less phonecalls saying “my PC f***** up, fix it for me”
Linux forums can actually help fix problems via code made by developers, Windows is close source and therefore can’t
Linux users generally have more computer knowledge than Windows users
Linux gets improved bucketloads every 6 months, Windows takes 5-7 years!
So yea, wise up and start realising that not all your customers are stupid and want to run Windows. Make us feel happy and we’ll give you more money.
/end rant
April 7th, 2008 at 11:23
fuck Dell. buy other stuff.
Dell is expensive even in Serbia [Europe], and it’s not “so great”, anywayZs.. fuck’m.
April 7th, 2008 at 14:19
And this is what I find ridiculous. It’s called a promotion. Promotions happen all the time to get rid of things, and for sales purposes. However because this is a Linux/Windows issue it’s now a “scam”. I’m sorry but I don’t feel for these people. If Dell, or HP, or anyone wants to have a promotion to sell something, they can do whatever they want. If people want to choose to use Ubuntu, go ahead, you won’t get the promotion.
April 7th, 2008 at 15:54
The real story is that tech support is so bad for people duped into buying Linux that DELL can’t make any money. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out that DELL is in it for the money, and with Linux, they can’t make money. Even giving away the OS for free is not enough.
With Ubuntu 8.04, this may change, but right now there are too many problems with DELLs running Ubuntu.
April 7th, 2008 at 18:17
I was very happy with the Ubuntu Dell PCs. Now they can suck my kiss!!!!
April 7th, 2008 at 18:46
I don’t remember Dell ever flat out rejecting Linux on their systems; the time from IdeaStorm to Ubuntu on Dell, Michael Dell’s page said he had Ubuntu on his main system. Distribution deals don’t instantly happen, they take manpower and clearance by legal teams.
People demand Ubuntu systems.. well Dell didn’t have the infastructure to support Linux. Their people were trained to deal with Windows support calls. It takes time to train the staff, especially if they’re on the other side of the world. This includes writing new teaching media and training more people. They were probably getting the infastructure ready before they (unfairly) gave people the option for support.
I’m sure there’s probably some reason why Dell didn’t offer the free ram or the HDD upgrade to Ubuntu customers. Maybe Microsoft payed them for Windows? Maybe they forgot to update the page? Who knows. The thing is.. Ubuntu is free; get the cheaper deal, burn an .iso and put Ubuntu on yourself. You get another operating system included and save money.
“Come on, you morons, haven’t you figured out already that every single move you make is under the scrutiny of millions of Linux users with above-average intelligence?” Have you bought a Dell system since they started selling Linux? Did you show your support for what Dell is doing? Probably not and a lot of others probably didn’t either. Blogs like this are more bad press for Dell (which is not what they need, since they’re struggling to make it; see the slashdot story where they’re pulling system customization). Maybe Dell will stop selling Ubuntu all together? It seems like too much to manage according to your comments. In a world where 90% of the world runs Windows I doubt they care about the 1-10% that is Linux.
Where is your source about Microsoft dumping them as a partner? They’re a volume licenser and both companies need each other to survive. Microsoft has been more lax in their dealings with open source lately..
I bought an XPS 1330 about 5 months ago, and didn’t see the option to buy a Linux only version at the time. I saw the deal for the Inspirons, but not for the XPS 1330. I took Vista, instantly reformatted it and gave myself a 60GB Ubuntu partition. I’m dual booting and I couldn’t be happier. A vendor selling Linux isn’t going to make an impact unfortunately unless they’re Linux only (Walmart Linux PCs, Asus EeePC, etc.) Customers are going to choose what they’re used to and demand Windows. If it’s Linux only, they don’t mind as much.
April 7th, 2008 at 18:55
[...] read more | digg story [...]
April 7th, 2008 at 19:03
In my country I decided to call DELL and check the price on a pc with linux and they said they did not sell them. I also asked for the price on a Pc without any OS and I was told they did not sell Pcs without an OS. DELL is nothing more than a cmpany that sells Vista machines, and bad ones too. how can they try and screw you with a 1gb ram vista laptop. you are right they underestimate their clients. luckily for them there are still millions of morons who think they are getting the best machine in the world.
April 7th, 2008 at 19:42
In Dells defense you can buy a WINDOWS machine for $225 more than a WINDOWS machine. They have multiple paths to the same hardware based on marketing. Last time I bought a dell I paid $329 shipped for a machine which could have been $90 more depending no how I selected it. I’m more upset that you can’t get Linux on an AMD machine. On the pricing, so what ( for me ). I’m just buying a machine to install Linux on, so a free Vista license to wipe my ass with is superfluous.
April 8th, 2008 at 7:05
[...] Es la última de las novedades de un comportamiento poco honesto de Dell, que se puede resumir en los mismos puntos - traduzco literalmente del post original - que indican en Rudd-O: [...]
April 8th, 2008 at 9:57
So what? Linux users are the biggest whiners on the planet. If you want the damn thing, pay for it. Supposedly, Ubuntu is a much better OS, so why are they not willing to pay? Linux fanboys are noisy and loud, but when the time comes to vote with their wallet, they’re not up to the expectations. It’s no wonder manufacturers don’t give a shit about Linux and its fanboys. They’re not going to turn into paying customers anyway.
April 8th, 2008 at 12:57
Nobody will send your kids to war unless they CHOOSE to join the military. Nobody is forced. Nobody is drafted. Nobody has a gun their heads. Heros CHOOSE to defend our great constitution and way of life. If your kids CHOOSE to serve, they will be held up as heros. If not, they can still look forward to a life filled with the joys of enjoying the rights defended by those that did.
Peace
April 9th, 2008 at 4:08
I think it’s a total disrespect to the linux community. I think the fact that they offered linux increased their sales a lot and not just sales on computers with linux but also on others. The fact is that there are a lot of linux enthusiasts that recomend Dell just because they had this linux offer I know I do but I may not do it anymore. I am dissatisfied because of these issues and their service.
April 9th, 2008 at 9:17
There’s certainly a lot of people who would love a lower cost Linux machine from Dell, but the question is does Dell want to create a department to handle the Linux support? These are some issues that they have thought through only to conclude that it is not worthwhile for Dell as a company to pursue at the moment.
April 9th, 2008 at 13:30
YOU need to do some homework, fella.
Take out your crystal ball, stand on your head and peer into the not-too-distant past. Dell already tried this preinstalled Linux effort and they got strong-armed into giving up. Microsoft said, in effect: ‘if you try to offer ANY operating system other than Microsofts, we will revoke your license to sell ALL versions of Windows, and that means for ALL platforms - Servers, desktops. laptops. EVERYTHING’.
That shows how Microsoft WILL flex muscle in the face of competition, just like any other COMMERCIAL company will try to sweeten the pot so that its homies get satisfaction. Microsoft can afford this because Vista was, I think, coded by a flogged-but-dead-for-a-month monkey, sending work to Redmond Wshington via dialup modem from somewhere near Bhopal India. Because M$ didn’t get very good work for this Pronghorn code, the revenues from Vista are only about 100,000% profits (as opposed to the typical 458,288%), so if M$ has to spend $80 for each Dell PC to have Vistabomination, M$ still makes $50 per copy - no great shakes, it is still profit (Bill left, so corporate overhead has reduced 35%).
Go to MadTux and get a more generic (read: more reconfigurable) PC for about the same price as that ‘Windows Vista Enhanced’ system which you just described. Go to eCollegePC and totally whip the llama.
You have a different path, a path that accepts Linux as any computer used to accept DR-DOS, PC-DOS and MS-DOS. Stop looking at the harlot M$ - it will die only when people make a different choice.
And as for the mouthpieces from the *buntu camp, flake off. I’m tired of the FUD that YOU folks are spreading. I’ve never had an install of *buntu that has worked properly, on 3 PCs, 3 version of Ubuntu and a version of Kubuntu - it doesn’t freaking work. If you want a distro that WORKS, get PCLinuxOs if you want to minimize needing a B.S.in ComSci, or get ArchLinux if you HAVE a B.S. in CompSci.
April 9th, 2008 at 18:20
Nice article. Keep on em, the squeaky hinge gets the grease.
With that being said, I also believe Dell deserves much credit for at least providing a Linux option(and a non-SLED one at that).
I was looking at the Dell website and I couldn’t seem to reproduce the situation you mention but I can see how this sort of thing can easily happen.
What’s hilarious is that Vista actually requires more RAM to be worth the crap - and so maybe Dell has other reasons for reducing RAM prices in Vista’s case anyway, hehe.
Don’t get me wrong, I still firmly believe that NOT paying the M$crosoft tax is essential and so by that token Ubuntu buyers should get the Windows OEM price reduced from their Ubuntu order (this is probably around $200 (I’m guessing)).
We Linux users have got to change the way the world thinks in terms of “just accepting” the Windows Tax. The Windows Tax MUST be stopped!!
So if you have some specific enough examples, my suggestion is to report this to the Dept. of Justice as an AntiTrust issue. Find out more information here: http://www.usdoj.gov/atr/contact/newcase.htm Here is the contact email for suspected violations: antitrust.complaints(at)usdoj(dot)gov
Go Linux!! Go Freedom!! Down with those non-standards using companies that are trying to destroy technology as an enabler for humankind!
Shannon V.
April 9th, 2008 at 20:13
All things aside the basic fact does not change, Linux is better than Windows. I say this to people all the time a P4 with 1g ram (or even 512 Mb) can be faster than a Duel Core with 2 Gig and Vista. Also you do not need 160Gb of HD space if your OS is not taking up 10G from the initial installation. I can tell you, as an example of Window’s incompetence, I recently bought a Dell Laptop not too long ago with 2g ram Duel Core at 2.66 GHz with 160 GB HD at 7500 RPMS. It came with Windows Vista, I knew that was going to end badly, but I used it regardless. So 2 things happened. First of all, vista got one of its updates for Microsoft Defender, (a program which has not been good since Beta) and windows ceased to work. Would not load. Then the second problem to arise was a HD error. Windows uses about 100x as many writes per hour (if someone wishes to check that thanks much) and most likely the update for Defender caused it to make an error on the HD. So in order to fix this problem I installed Linux. It worked fat better. No error, ran faster, and even worked around the existing HD errors. To make a long story short vista will break your computer, and Linux will raise it from the dead.
April 10th, 2008 at 12:37
Dell doesn’t want to give you free stuff when you don’t want to pay money, oh noes, call the internet police at digg. It’s like asking a lemon aid stand to serve ice tea and demanding free sugar, they bent over backwards to get this up, and all you do is complain that you don’t get the same benefits as the people willing to pay a tad more.
PROTIP: buy the windows compy, with upgrades free, and install Ubuntu. Jeeze you guys are annoying.
April 10th, 2008 at 13:52
excellent points you could always get windows version and decline end user agreement and ask for refund.
Jon
April 10th, 2008 at 21:17
[...] should actually be $50 less… The Great Dell Linux Scam __________________ Athlon X2 4600+ Manchester @ 2809.9 Member of the s939 Appreciation Club! [...]
April 11th, 2008 at 8:34
The reason Dell with Linux is more expensive is because “windows” pays Dell to put there OS on there computers. Linux or Ubuntu is a free OS (and a better OS) so the companies associated is not paying off Dell to but a crappy OS on there computers.
April 11th, 2008 at 11:13
Apparently these millions of linux users have no commonsense. Buy the windows machine with the free upgrades….Then download whatever distro you want of linux….Install said distro! Now you have an OS that you love plus another you can start a yet another of the countless linux fanboy/windows hater websites.
Personally I like both OS’s. I’ll use linux full time when I can insert a game into the dvd drive and it installs without the use of useless emulators and punching lines and lines into the terminal.
April 11th, 2008 at 19:14
After a new laptop, I discover Dell will supply one with Linux. This is an Inspiron 1525. I customise it. It is perfect. Out of curiosity I see I can get the same model with Windows and a faster processor for £100 less (Linux T5450, Webcam, 2GB, 160GBSATA - £444 or Windows T5550, Webcam, 2GB, 160GBSATA - £444) There is no way to get the same processors for the Linux where T5450 is the fastest available and for Windows T5550 which is the slowest available but faster than the Linux one.
The date - Today 12 April 2008.
Mind you in the USA there is a bigger range. I was honestly going to buy one until I discovered this. I have just bought a HP530. That is a genuine one sale loss for Dell.
April 12th, 2008 at 0:28
For many years I have owned a computer repair shop in northern California. No less than 75% of the desktops and laptops we see are Dell boxes. At one time I thought maybe Dell has that percentage of the market ; ;;WRONG;; We refuse to sell them in our shop. We love Dell however, they keep us in business.
No matter what OS ships with a Dell why oh why do it.
April 12th, 2008 at 1:35
Er, who buys $275 upgrade to only 2 GB RAM? I “upgraded” (I got a whitebook, so I didn’t have to “upgrade”) my laptop to 4 GB for only $80 (no rebates, too!) a month or two ago.
Given that anyone with any kind of sense should upgrade their own laptops (some choose to get it from the vendor, for unified warranty purposes, but I think they are overpaying for that insurance), Dell Ubuntu laptops are still very much on par with Windows laptops, price-wise.
Not that, of course, I’m happy with Dell. I’m rather mad at them for not offering Ubuntu (or OS-less) AMD laptops—forcing me to go the whitebook route.
April 16th, 2008 at 21:29
In reply to all those who belittle GNU/Linux. I am over 50, I started using computers when I turned 40, I came across GNU/Linux over half a decade ago and it changed my life. It taught me computering . I make money (enough to live a decent life) with it. And I have never concerned myself with whether a company sold machines with GNU/Linux pre-installed on them. Always put the install/live CD in them and made it work. Some didn’t because the manufacturer of that particular component was/is not interested in providing GNU/Linux drivers for it. It is also probable that somebody in the GNU/Linux community would have written a driver for the same. Thereby I could make it work. For those who rail against the differences (distro’s) it is about choice and that too the ultimate. You can run the gamut of choice here folks. You are ‘free’ to customise it all you want. Including building your own distro. I live in India and I can assure you GNU/Linux has empowered me. I can only say “thank you” all those who made this possible.
April 29th, 2008 at 1:44
The real way to save money is to buy the parts and make your own computer. Then you don’t have to worry about BS Dell deals. My compy is pretty good and cost about $1000 less than if I bought it from HP or whoever.
May 1st, 2008 at 10:10
A lot of times PC companies get special rebates/funds from Microsoft and other vendors for marketing. The free RAM upgrade is most likely a result of one of those product specific (or Microsoft specific) rebates. You need to learn more about hardware companies and their business dynamics before posting somewhat ignorantly here. Huge corporations are frequently considered evil for anti trust activities… they probably are evil sometimes… but hand in hand with their huge scale, which they may preserve through questionable means, consumers are given lower prices and ultimately go with those. What’s best for society? It is very tough to say when we’re in the same room as someone who is struggling financially and may even barely afford to buy things at Wal-Mart. Another example IS Wal-Mart. This is just a fact of life that people need to deal with. Businesses are not interested in dissing Linux. They are interested in making money. Hypothetically if Microsoft or another vendor wanted to promote a specific product with a special rebate, they can do that. It has nothing to do with Linux. Btw, I am a Linux user but just fed up with conspiracy theories that are out of touch with reality. I think Dell people are genuine about their support for Linux, but at the same time see it as a strategy against Microsoft. I think all PC companies do that, some with genuine Linux supporters some without. I think Dell still has some people who are “with” it. At the end of the day we need to think about how to make money with Linux that companies and consumers understand… instead of bitch and whine about how we are under served.
May 16th, 2008 at 16:51
nice article, i really appricate it
June 11th, 2008 at 19:38
Well if Ubuntu takes so little resorces to run, why pay more for useless hardware? Oh, because it doesn’t. XP ran better on my computer than linux does now, but i can’t go back because i don’t have the XP disc
June 16th, 2008 at 1:40
Wow, Im amazed. Microsoft’s oppresive business tactics are just another sign of its weakness. Ubuntu 7 (Beryl) could be easily configured to be user friendly and have drivers etc already isntalled (since Dell usually deals in packages). Dell is being whimpy and like someone else said - forgeting it’s roots.
I think with a few more releases ubuntu will offer Dell an alternative to microsoft. Ubunutu (as it is) - is within striking range of the tyrant. 10 pages of documentation explain that pidgin is msn messenger, mozilla is IE and thunderbird is outlook would get a new user up and running in no time.
The problem is - what do you need to do to get a user of sub-intellegence up and running? Im sure this is the only thing stoping Dell from treating the linux community with a little more respect.
The major issue with linux is its support base. Mac have done well in this respect, so people making the transition are almost pampered once they switch to mac. However the reality is - you dont have to be overly intelligent to use a mac. If linux could provide something (besides google and forums) to help convertee’s deal with the change it would be more successful.
August 22nd, 2008 at 21:31
Because I work for a company that has complicated procurement and budgeting procedures and we can only get Dells.
And personally, I’m voting for Ru Paul